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There is to be a ‘campaign against climate change’ march in London this Saturday, the 8th of December. A service is being organised beforehand by various Christian groups.
See any of these websites for details: Ecocongregation, SCM, Christian Ecology Link or Operation Noah. I got the poster above from the Ecocongregation site.
Campaign against Climate Change is the website for the campaign as a whole.
Thanks to Paul for reminding me about this in the comments.
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posted on Tuesday, December 4th, 2007 at 1:05 pm. Click here to read all of the latest posts.
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Thanks for posting this, Dave.
Hope to see plenty of folk there!..
Serving coffe… ahhh… so are they using a renewable source of electricity to boil the water with? It is the small things like this that make all the difference, the actual event will create some climate issues itself! Ironic huh?
What rubbish. How can you support something like this?
How can you not?
Sorry, Dave. Just my pet peeve against ‘Christian activism.’ does it further the Gospel? If not, why get wrapped up in it.
I’d say loving your neighbour not only furthers the gospel, but it is the gospel.
Not only that, but the Magnificat puts God’s activism at the forefront of the Advent story.
The poor are lifted up, the hungry fed and the strong pulled down. If the developing countries taking responsibility for their recent polluting behaviour is not part of the gospel story, I’d like to know what was.
I’d say loving your neighbour not only furthers the gospel, but it is the gospel.
Pagans love their neighbor on occasion, but it has nothing to do with the Gospel. Sure, we are to be good stewards of God’s creation, but we don’t have to buy into politically/socially motivated scams to spread the Word.
“Hey everybody! Look how relevant we are! Won’t you be a Christian too?”
I’ll say it again – rubbish!
It’s interesting. There’s a whole school of thought that seems to say, “It’s OK to squander because God will provide…” Then there’s another school of thought that says, “God entrusted us with the earth, and is he ever gonna be ticked if we screw it up.”
I pretty much fall into the latter category. It’s been horribly, miserably uncomfortable here in Maryland this year. We are ten inches down on our normal rainfall, and the summer was hot, hot, hot. There’s a trend at work, as this was the latest in a series of ever-hotter summers. Our electricity costs just increased 50%, and the utility is angling for another 25%. They say the 50% was just for “energy costs,” while the 25% will be a “fair”(!) profit. That impact is felt by everyone, but it is felt most by those least able to pay for it. Now it’s winter, and we will have at least two or three terrible, fatal fires in this city. They will occur because people are trying to light their homes with candles or gain warmth from shoddy space heaters or the gas oven. People will die in these fires because they always do. (For some reason, when the utility shuts off the electricity, they often leave the gas operational. I guess it is more trouble than it’s worth to shut it off…) If there’s genuine suffering here, it must be that much greater in places that have real problems.
I hope the activities will raise awareness of what can be done to relieve suffering that is already going on and to prevent suffering in the future.
If I could draw, which I can’t, I might make a cartoon of some sheepish people standing in front of God, who would be saying, “Just look at yourselves! I gave you a perfectly functional world, and you blew it–big time.”
If I could draw, which I can’t, I might make a cartoon of some sheepish people standing in front of God, who would be saying, “Just look at yourselves! I gave you a perfectly functional world, and you blew it–big time.”
Or He could say, “why did you squander your time in mindless activism when you could have told people about My son?”
Who said activism isn’t telling people about His son?
Who said activism isn’t telling people about His son?
What part of the global warming message says, “Jesus Christ is the son of God and He died for your sins”? Must have missed that in Al gore’s diatribes.
I’m going to invest my time in some mindFUL activism, prayer, worship and reflection.
Steve, you have misunderstood what the Gospel is!
Jesus is Lord of ALL THE EARTH! And His heart and mission is for the freedom and flourishing of a redeemed creation. Just now, what is most in need of such redemptive love and action is a biosphere that has been nearly bankrupted in order to feed sinful greed and spiritual blindness…
I shall still look forward to seeing some of you at the worship on Saturday and Steve if, pray God, his heart is changed. To transform the crisis of global warming will certainly require the earnest prayers and work of Jesus’ disciples to see some ‘heart’warming’ first!
Oh, I don’t know Steve. How about right here. Best King James language, of course:
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
I’m slightly confused. How many St Matthews is the church named after and dedicated to? Isn’t it normal for a church to have only one saint’s name? Having more than one seems greedy.
Hi Dave
Many thanks for posting the info about the service.
Cheers
Jo
Eco-cong person
I’m just writing to say thanks for publicising this. I’m afraid I won’t be making it (helping out with Amnesty in Edinburgh), but hopefully enough people will turn up to show that people do care about this issue.
Steve, the evidence is there, clearer than ever. The debate is recorded in 100s of journals, and the future feedback effects and forcings are still being discussed. This is not a “politically/socially motivated scam”, but is real. If you know of some evidence that suggests otherwise, please publish it, if not, join us, and help us stop the worst from happening.
Climate Scientists explain in a clear, but thorough manner the issues at http://www.realclimate.org
(hope that helps!)
Ann,
You are absolutely right on target. ‘Activism’ to feed the hungry, etc., isn’t activism, but living the Gospel. I am in full agreement. But maybe we’re splitting hairs.
On the other hand, nowhere in Scripture does it mention reducing carbon emissions, etc. The planet does not need to be saved, people do. We are to be stewards of His creation and our primary mission is reach the lost.
I simply have a problem with people who worship the creation rather than the creator. The global whining movement smacks of that.
Mike,
Is climate change going on? Sure, it was colder today where I live than it was yesterday. It’s drier than it was last year but wetter than ten years ago. If there is a globally evident change in weather patterns, we’re better off looking to natural causes (i.e., natural variations in solar activity). Mars is experiencing climatic change as well. Did we do that?
Man’s role, if any, in effecting changes in the biosphere are minimal. Mt. Pinatubo put more carbon in the atmosphere than the combined effects of industrialization in the past two centuries.
My point is that, as believers, this is small potatoes compared to what our true charge is – the Great Commission. Unfortunately, feeding the needy is not as sexy or politically expedient as demonstrating against global warming..
If there was a road where people were repeatedly mugged, there might be a range of responses. The correct emergency response might be to administer first aid.
But if that keeps happening, at some point you have to ask why the people keep getting mugged. You might have to campaign to get better street lighting, invest in youth programs or police.
You might, from your armchair, believe that anthropogenic carbon emissions are not causing climate change. But better and more educated people than you and I do believe that. Evidence from the ground, including the work my cousin is painstakingly recording from the Arctic, suggests that there is a real and demonstrative warming.
Frankly, I am more inclined to believe them that a random poster on a cartoon website.
Yes the climate is changing and the earth’s tempreture is rising. Yes we need to address what we can do effectively to understand what impact of positive change can be implemented.
With countries like China creating so amny power stations that make a big contribution to carbon emissions, how can we get around the table and offer an alternative, because like it or not, the energy is required for China et all. It’s not easy but my faith lies in technology to provide an alternative that can deliver what the planet needs.
So, please try to boil your kettle less, or even ban coffee drinks on such marches as these, that would make a statement that the march itself would be eco friendly. Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, the ironic thing about these marches is that they themselves contribute extra carbon into the atmosphere by taking place! D’oH!
Steve,
I think your science is a bit off, as are your assumptions about this large group of people in London whom you’ve never met. If those who are observing the Earth are correct about climate changes, then we can be pretty sure that the people who will suffer the most, and the most quickly, are those people who already don’t have enough food and water to sustain themselves.
As for the large group of people in London, I don’t know any of them–except Dave via his blog. If this were the Middle Ages, perhaps they’d be getting together to consider what to do to help plague sufferers. 200 years ago in the U.S., they might have been considering what to do about slavery. It’s perfectly appropriate–and natural–for Christians to gather and take action in the face of whatever great issues are at work in their world and in their time.
Anne
I can’t believe I’m getting drawn on this again. I just can’t leave false statements unanswered for anyone to read.
Mike,
Is climate change going on? Sure, it was colder today where I live than it was yesterday. It’s drier than it was last year but wetter than ten years ago. If there is a globally evident change in weather patterns, we’re better off looking to natural causes (i.e., natural variations in solar activity).
If you’re referring to fact that the sun is on the brighter side of average over the last hundred years (eg Edouard Bard et al’s analysis of cosmogenic nuclides) then that has already been taken into account in the climate models and predictions.
A well written summary of the issues can be found in Nature:
http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/ccr/raimund/publications/Muscheler_et_al_Nature2005.pdf
Even if we take the upper limit, and use the views of Sami Solanki. He comments that:
“Although the rarity of the current episode of high average sunspot number may be taken as an indication that the Sun has contributed to the unusual degree of climate change during the twentieth century, we stress that solar variability is unlikely to be the prime cause of the strong warming during the last three decades.”
http://www.iac.ethz.ch/people/stefanbr/teaching/vorlesung1/sun_solanki.pdf
Mars is experiencing climatic change as well. Did we do that?
If you’re referring to the shrinking southern ice cap on Mars at the moment, this is quite clearly a localised climate change, due to the geometry of the planet and its orbit. I couldn’t get hold of the article, Athens is playing up, but from its abstract:
“the south pole of Mars is characterized by two distinct regional climates that are the result of dynamical forcing by the largest southern impact basins, Argyre and Hellas. The style of surface frost deposition is controlled by these regional climates. In the cold and stormy conditions that exist poleward of 60° S and extend 180° in longitude west from the Mountains of Mitchel (approx 30° W), surface frost accumulation is dominated by precipitation. In the opposite hemisphere, the polar atmosphere is relatively warm and clear and frost accumulation is dominated by direct vapour deposition. It is the differences in these deposition styles that determine the cap albedo.”
–from “Albedo of the south pole on Mars determined by topographic forcing of atmosphere dynamics”, Anthony Colaprete et al. Nature 2005.
Man’s role, if any, in effecting changes in the biosphere are minimal. Mt. Pinatubo put more carbon in the atmosphere than the combined effects of industrialization in the past two centuries.
That is such a stupid lie, at least if you’re going to troll, troll with things that aren’t complete nonsense.
Why it’s wrong:
1) Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere are rising steadily due to human production. This is clearly shown in many journal papers, in the IPCC, etc. You can probably work this out with a pen and paper: average person creates (~1T/year) and multiply by human population (6Bx1T=6×10^12kg) divide by the mass of the atmosphere (5×10^18 kg) -> voila ~1.2ppm (by mass). The measurements show this gradual increase. If it were produced by volcanoes, we’d see spikes in the graph of CO2, which we don’t.
2) The isotopes of the CO2 in the atmosphere indicate that this is ‘recent’ carbon – ie that from coal, oil and n.gas, rather than that from volcanoes.
3) They’ve estimated, using spectoscopic sensors etc how much CO2 volcanoes emit (in total it is about 0.15 Gt/year, humans emit about 7 Gt/year).
My point is that, as believers, this is small potatoes compared to what our true charge is – the Great Commission. Unfortunately, feeding the needy is not as sexy or politically expedient as demonstrating against global warming..
I’m an atheist, so I don’t have “the Great Commission”. ‘feeding the needy’ is okay, but allowing them to feed and cloth themselves, and have respect and a home, education, health-care and security I’d say is a better solution. Many of us went on the march in Edinburgh a couple of years ago to “Make Poverty History”. With the multitude of problems the world now faces: Sustainability, Security, Population Growth, Industrialisation, Limited fuel, Water tables falling, disease, the one thing that will put the nail in the coffin of the developing world and make poverty permanent is to cause vast climate change.
If you want to make poverty history, as well as avoid the Holocene extinction event we’re entering, help stop climate change.
Steve Hearn, China produces far less per head of population than any western country. In fact, given that China produces consumer goods for western economies, some of that which it produces is our responsibility anyway.
Yes, China and India are an issue. But suggesting that they are the cause of the historic rise in CO2 is nonsense, and manifestly unjust.
Oh dear, I’m arguing about climate change with a cartoonist on a cartoon website. Somebody shoot me.
Joe, I did not intend to lay all the blame on China, it was an example of what is happening in the world today. Shoot you? Nope, I shall leave that to the comedians, as we cartoonists only fight with pencil and ink! LOL! Its good to debate and share view points. I am always happy to listen to others but from all sides. I’m still waiting for our Mediterranian summers?
[...] What is the right role for good works and/or ‘activism’ in the Christian walk? I understand from James that ‘faith without works is dead” (James 2:20). Christ himself gave the example of helping the needy, but where does it cross the line into something else? I’ve seen many recent examples of Christians who have become active in political campaigns or global warming activism. Is this our role? We do have civic responsibilities as citizens of a given country, or even of the world, but it’s not our first responsibility. Maybe I’ve have the wrong perspective, but I think our first priority should be to reach a lost and fallen world with the Gospel. [...]
Look, it’s not about the science or lack of science in the global warming debate, but rather, the proper role of ‘activism’ in Christianity. In a Martha-and-Mary context, activists by definition come as Martha – too busy about a false sense of serving to bother about that which is most important.
