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October 4th, 2007

The National Secular Society

I was surprised to discover that I have made the quote of the week on the National Secular Society website (Thanks to Arun for the tip):

quote on National Secular Society website

“A lot of people are going back to church again – this is usually because they have forgotten something like their keys or jacket or glasses”
(Dave, cartoonist at Cartoonists Blog)

Of course, as we (and they) know full well this is not a ‘quote’, but a caption from one of my cartoons:

back to church
[Large version of 'Back to Church' cartoon]

A caption is designed to be read with the cartoon it accompanies and is not the same as a quote. Out of context a cartoon caption may appear to be saying something which it is not. Thus the Secularists mislead their audience, which is a little bit naughty of them.

I had a quick look around the National Secular Society website whilst I was there. They come across as ‘oh so balanced’ upon first reading:

We want a society in which all are free to practise their faith, change it or not have one, according to their conscience.

A splendid sentiment.

But when I clicked another link at random things were not looking quite so reasonable. This page contains a letter from a reader describing a vicar as “a probable child abuser in a dress”, something that I found really quite offensive. There is no disclaimer that I could find saying ‘these letters do not necessarily represent the views of the National Secular Society’ so one assumes that they do.

If that is secularism then I think perhaps that you can probably keep it.

Update: At the time of writing the Secularist website is down if you use the normal address – but I found a version that works here.

21 Comments »



This is a single Cartoon Blog entry, posted by Dave on Thursday, October 4th, 2007 at 2:52 pm.

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21 Responses to “The National Secular Society”


  1. Blogger! says:

    You can see yourself on TV online! Go to http://www.premier.tv and put ‘blog’ in the search engine and you’ll see your acceptance speech – quality!!

    October 4th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
  2. Dave says:

    Thanks Blogger – I posted about it the other day.

    October 4th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
  3. Jack the Lass says:

    Ooh that’s a bit naughty of them. I hope you sent them an appropriately worded email.

    October 4th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
  4. Dave says:

    I will contact them, but I thought I’d let people see it first.

    October 4th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
  5. Dave Rattigan says:

    You have a point about the “child abuser in a dress” comment, but I don’t think the quote issue is a big deal. A quote can be from any context, and it is no less a quote, and in this case it’s hardly misleading – the quote is very obviously tongue-in-cheek, with or without the accompanying cartoon.

    October 4th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
  6. Neil says:

    All publicity is good publicity, or something.

    I have always been impressed when I have heard people from the NSC on the radio being interviewed, they campaign for the same rights for those of no belief as those who are part of an organised religion enjoy (strictness of a civil ceremony and government funded church schools being two issues I have heard them talk about) which has to be a good thing.

    October 4th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
  7. Mark Bennet says:

    Who knows. Some member of the National Secular Society might just remember that they left their keys or their jacket or their glasses in church and come back to look for them. It could be the beginning of a life-changing story …

    Subversion, you know it works.

    October 4th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
  8. Mary says:

    I couldn’t get either link to work… if I click on the main website link, I get a website about cuttlefish. If I click on the “random” link, I get a 404 error…

    October 4th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
  9. Anne says:

    Hmm. I’m getting the same errors–the link to “cuttlefish media” or whoever, and lots of 404’s. So I did a Google on them, clicked that link, and got the same result.

    October 4th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
  10. Cosmo says:

    Me too.

    Has the NSS folded because it contained a quote by a Christian?

    October 4th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
  11. Clover says:

    Well said Dave.

    October 4th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
  12. mlc says:

    is not having a faith…a faith in nothing?

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
  13. Dave says:

    The Secularist website seems to be having various problems (caused by Religion I suspect). This link works at the time of writing.

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
  14. Peter Kirk says:

    This link works at the time of writing.

    But a mere six minutes later it is not working. Something odd is happening. Maybe the NSS has a techie working 24/7 to stop anyone coming to their site from anywhere “religious”, for fear of contamination. Maybe they “want a society in which all are free to practise their faith …”, but apparently the National Secular Society is not such a society!

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
  15. Rob says:

    Well, it’s working this morning (5th Oct) and I have to say, it’s a bit of a misrepresentation.

    Especially the “Dave at Cartoonist Blog” byline. It would have been more honest to describe Dave properly, and at least acknowledge http://www.cartoonchurch.com .

    a thought: if you reproduce the words of a cartoon without permission, is this copyright infringement as if they had reproduced the whole cartoon without permission?

    October 5th, 2007 at 9:35 am
  16. joe says:

    I doubt it, Rob, if the quote is accurate.

    I had an email yesterday from Terry Sanderson of the NSS. I’m not going to bother quoting him, but he doesn’t agree that it was rude to use Dave’s name in vain like this.

    By the way, did you know that secularists have unusual amounts of facial hair and shout at dogs in the street? I knew one who did, therefore that must be a general rule.

    October 5th, 2007 at 9:49 am
  17. nessa says:

    i have to say, i was put off of the NSS by their own radio spokesperson once. i heard a radio wales lunchtime phone in show at easter time where they got in someone from a local anglican church, someone from ship of fools, and someone from the national secular society to debate going to church at easter. and to be perfectly honest the guy from the NSS was revealing more about his own psychological issues and anger problems than he was any rational discussion. it was almost embarassing. he was angry, attacking and completely unwilling to allow someone else to have a Christian point of view.

    rather than taking anything he said as serious rational discussion on the benifits of a society that is open to people equally who believe or don’t believe in God/a god, it became more of a tretise on why chistianity is wrong and why church has contributed to all evils in our society. i could only really feel that “me thinks thou doth protest too much” was an appropriate comment.

    October 5th, 2007 at 9:55 am
  18. Chris says:

    Dave wrote: “The Secularist website seems to be having various problems (caused by Religion I suspect).”

    OK, own up folks – who’s praying against them?!

    I think the least they could have done is provide a proper link to Cartoon Church!

    Chris

    October 5th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
  19. Peter Kirk says:

    Well, maybe it is something about me, but the special link Dave gave is still not working for me. I get something like a “Community Portal Error”. But the NSS’s front page is working, complete with the disputed quote.

    October 5th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
  20. Philip of Samaria says:

    funny name ‘national secular society’…

    Also implies I think being against something not for something,,,

    humanist society works better for me as a title

    but who can match the wrathful Dawkins for sheer anger against God?

    October 5th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
  21. webweaver.pttw says:

    I peeked and Dave’s “quote” is now gone.

    October 12th, 2007 at 12:14 am