Making a Splash

7 Responses to “Making a Splash”

1. Chris Clark says:
   

   I don’t think many of us are too bothered by the amount of water but ….not baptising infants….excluding them from the covenant by implication…adverting a book which propogates this heresy…I’m writing to your bishop!

   January 15th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
2. Canadian says:
   

   Oh yes I agree with Chris. I am in favour of immersion for symbolic reasons and I am in favour of baptising unbaptised adults… but I do believe in baptising the children of believers. It shows very clearly that it is God doing something for us, not us doing something for God. The other aspect in which I disagree with Baptist theology of baptism is the sacramental question. They think baptism is only symbolic whereas I (and the whole church catholic) believe in baptismal regeneration because baptism is a sacrament, i.e. an outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace. In other words, baptism actually *does* something; it is not just a way of advertising your commitment and showing your obedience.

   January 15th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
3. Ralph says:
   

   Where does Canadian get the idea that for Baptists Baptism is purely symbolic? Baptism is the starting point of a new life. It is the acceptance that you have dedicated your life to Christ and received the Holy Spirit as Jesus did when rising from the waters of the Jordan. It is a commitment, as a believer, to all that Jesus did and spoke about. The key word is ‘believer’. Baptists cannot see how a child, not even out of its mothers arms, can be admitted to the body of the church without ‘believing’. To do that you have to have some maturity and a level of understanding of why you are making this committment.

   January 15th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
4. Canadian says:
   

   Ralph, here are some quotes:

   “Baptism, commonly referred to as believer’s baptism among Baptists, is an ordinance that according to Baptist doctrine plays no role in salvation, being properly performed only after salvation, and is performed after a person professes Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It is an outward expression that is symbolic of the inward cleansing or remission of their sins that has already taken place. It is also a public identification of that person with Christianity and with that particular local church.” ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist_ordinances )

   “Baptists consistently declare that baptism and the Lord’s Supper are symbols and are not necessary for salvation. They are nonetheless a significant part of Baptist practice and worship.
   Because baptism and the Lord’s Supper are symbolic, the use of the proper symbols is important. Baptism symbolizes the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus that has made possible our salvation. Baptism also symbolizes that a person through faith in Christ has passed from death to life and that this person has identified with Christ’s death and resurrection (Romans 6:3-5; Colossians 2:12).” ( http://www.baptistdistinctives.org/textonly17.html )

   “Baptism and the Lord’s Supper have nothing to do with our salvation; they are symbols which picture of what the saving grace of God has already done in our hearts and lives.” ( http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0087.htm )

   “Baptism into and under water is a one-off symbol of the spiritual baptism that has already begun and will continue afterwards.” ( http://www.swba.org.uk/emphases.htm )

   “Southern Baptists believe that the Bible teaches that when a person makes a decision to become a Christian, baptism by immersion follows that decision as a public testimony of one’s faith in Christ. In the early church, scholars of all denominations agree, baptism was by immersion. A theological misunderstanding of original sin greatly influenced the church to start baptizing infants, and the mode of baptizing changed to sprinkling. Southern Baptists do not believe that baptism is required for salvation, but they believe that it is a symbolic testimony of our faith in Christ.” ( http://www.fbclacey.com/WhatWeBelieve.htm )

   In the Baptist view, as illustrated above, baptism is a sort of ceremony in which one testifies to something one has already done, the commitment to Jesus that one has already made.

   Whereas catholic-minded Christians believe baptism is a means of grace. Baptism brings you to new life, makes you a member of the body of Christ and part of the Christian family. In the words of the Nicene Creed, “we acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.” Baptism actually washes away our sins!

   Baptist baptisms are recognized by catholic Christianity as valid, even though the same theological understanding was not present. Someone baptized in a non-sacramental church will not need to be rebaptized if they decided to become a Roman Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, etc. Because there is only “one baptism”.

   (Apologies to Dave for cluttering his blog with this discussion!)

   January 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
5. Serena says:
   

   Canadian, I would like to point out that in my experience most Baptists are less black-and-white about this*. In my Baptist church I would imagine (although of course I can only speak for myself and from what our ministers have said) most of us would probably lean towards the idea that baptism does have symbolic meaning only, as a public confession of faith after a private commitment has been made; however we would also stress that Baptism is a special place of grace and God’s powerful work, and the same would also go for Communion, making them both sacramental in a way.

   As Baptist churches (certainly in the UK) affiliate together but are not bound to follow the recommendations of various councils, I would just advise a note of caution before assuming that all Baptists believe exactly the same things in the same way on all points of doctrine or custom!

   *See today’s cartoon, perhaps?!

   January 16th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
6. jody says:
   

   Hi

   I am Anglican and go to a Baptist college. My lecturer wrote a book last year called ‘Promise and Presence’ very excellent. An exploration of sacramental theology – he affirms all 7 sacraments, and I think 2 more? not sure about that, haven’t quite got to the end. Anyway, he is definitely a Baptist, but he would be the first to say that most Baptists think of communion as ‘symbolic’. I know a huge amount of Anglicans who think that too tho’. Mention the word sacrament and my evangelical brothers and sisters might think I’m a weirdo (of course they could be right)

   x Jody

   January 16th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
7. Ralph says:
   

   Canadian, either you have too much time on your hands or I’ve really rattled your cage -:}
   My argument is with your implied critiscism that just because my Baptism, was not what you would call ‘sacramental’ it is somehow inferior to your Baptism.
   Despite all the sources you cite, to the Baptists I know, and I include myself, making a private commitment to Christ is just a first step. Going through the waters of Baptism in front of your brothers and sisters in Christ and publicly professing your faith is a second, but vital step, and often a life changing step, on the Christian journey. Every single day we try and take another step.
   If you are happy because you were Baptised as an infant in a sacramental ceremony where a few drops of water were poured over your head *symbolising* the waters of Baptism, then I’m pleased for you, but you must accept that it wouldn’t do for me.

   January 16th, 2007 at 11:41 pm