Comments on: The conservative evangelical ‘covenant’ http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/ by Dave Walker Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:34:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: jody http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/comment-page-1/#comment-127986 jody Thu, 17 May 2007 08:48:12 +0000 http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/#comment-127986 sorry to bring this back to the foreground, but the recent report of the sad situation of things at wycliffe hall has suddenly made me realise why Richard Turnbull was so ready to sign up to the covenant....I'm so naiive. http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,2080581,00.html sorry to bring this back to the foreground, but the recent report of the sad situation of things at wycliffe hall has suddenly made me realise why Richard Turnbull was so ready to sign up to the covenant….I’m so naiive.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,2080581,00.html

]]> By: wannabepriest / Covenant continued http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/comment-page-1/#comment-78518 wannabepriest / Covenant continued Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:25:40 +0000 http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/#comment-78518 [...] So Christmas is over, New Year is over, I’ve finished my essays (*grin*) and in the rest of the Church of England, the discussion of “That Covenant” is back on the agenda after a brief football in no-man’s land-like break in hostilities over the Christmas period. Except, it’s not been all that quiet. [...] [...] So Christmas is over, New Year is over, I’ve finished my essays (*grin*) and in the rest of the Church of England, the discussion of “That Covenant” is back on the agenda after a brief football in no-man’s land-like break in hostilities over the Christmas period. Except, it’s not been all that quiet. [...]

]]> By: Nodrog http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/comment-page-1/#comment-77747 Nodrog Sat, 30 Dec 2006 00:06:37 +0000 http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/#comment-77747 My Church History is far too shaky to assert this categorically, but... didn't the Scottish Covenanters make a Covenant (among themselves i.e. between the people who signed up to it) that may not necessarily have been accepted by the church authorities of the time but nonetheless had an impact on them? This may of course be irrelevant, but I live in hope... My Church History is far too shaky to assert this categorically, but…

didn’t the Scottish Covenanters make a Covenant (among themselves i.e. between the people who signed up to it) that may not necessarily have been accepted by the church authorities of the time but nonetheless had an impact on them?

This may of course be irrelevant, but I live in hope…

]]> By: wannabepriest / You do not represent me http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/comment-page-1/#comment-76781 wannabepriest / You do not represent me Wed, 20 Dec 2006 22:05:34 +0000 http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/#comment-76781 [...] You do not represent me For the last few years, my wife and I have attended the [...] [...] You do not represent me For the last few years, my wife and I have attended the [...]

]]> By: michael jensen http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/comment-page-1/#comment-76732 michael jensen Wed, 20 Dec 2006 01:00:21 +0000 http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/#comment-76732 Man, you guys are way harsh. Tom Wright is just sore because nobody asked him first. The ecclesiology that Wright produces is extremely debateable I am afraid. Since when is a denomination a church, anyways? As for the money issue, he has his facts wrong, in the midst of his high dudgeon: the evangelical churches I know who are considering withholding funds from the central diocesan administrations - after years of bullying by them I might add - are independently giving to ministries in poorer areas and overseas. They are not 'well-heeled', they are generous. Man, you guys are way harsh. Tom Wright is just sore because nobody asked him first.

The ecclesiology that Wright produces is extremely debateable I am afraid. Since when is a denomination a church, anyways?

As for the money issue, he has his facts wrong, in the midst of his high dudgeon: the evangelical churches I know who are considering withholding funds from the central diocesan administrations – after years of bullying by them I might add – are independently giving to ministries in poorer areas and overseas. They are not ‘well-heeled’, they are generous.

]]> By: David Keen http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/comment-page-1/#comment-76682 David Keen Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:38:24 +0000 http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/#comment-76682 There is now an article on the Anglican Mainstream website which answers some of the questions around the 'covenant' - it doesn't directly address those raised by Tom Wright. The opening question: who do you speak for, is answered: "We speak on behalf of the many Anglicans, (from among Evangelical, Charismatic and Anglo-Catholic traditions) who want to remain faithful to the biblical faith as the Church of England has received it, and who see that that faith is currently at risk. Those who wish to express support for the concerns of the Covenant are invited to e-mail any of the signatories to say so." which says: 'we speak for all orthodox people, but we still want you to explicitly tell us that you support us', which is a bit have cake and eat it imho. There is now an article on the Anglican Mainstream website which answers some of the questions around the ‘covenant’ – it doesn’t directly address those raised by Tom Wright.

The opening question: who do you speak for, is answered:
“We speak on behalf of the many Anglicans, (from among Evangelical, Charismatic and Anglo-Catholic traditions) who want to remain faithful to the biblical faith as the Church of England has received it, and who see that that faith is currently at risk. Those who wish to express support for the concerns of the Covenant are invited to e-mail any of the signatories to say so.”

which says: ‘we speak for all orthodox people, but we still want you to explicitly tell us that you support us’, which is a bit have cake and eat it imho.

]]> By: Raspberry Rabbit http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/comment-page-1/#comment-76679 Raspberry Rabbit Tue, 19 Dec 2006 14:05:23 +0000 http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/#comment-76679 Much as Wright's response to the CEEC Covenant made much sense and good reading, the idea that it might be the 'final nail in the coffin' is perhaps a bit overstated. Calling these folks to task for their absent eccelsiology is a little bit like throwing Brer Rabbit into the bramble patch. It's no problem - that's where we belong and feel most comfortable. The CEEC Covenant represents opportunity for a particular wing of the church to accomplish certain goals. It's about control and focus for program. That the Evangelical Wing has in the past done well in the presence of Bishops and neighbouring congregations with whom they disagreed is somehow left to the side undiscussed. The name 'Anglican' over the door has given these churches and parachurch organizations access and respectability. No, they're not the 'Dolly Pond Church of Pentecost with Signs Following' - Calm down Mum, it's the CofE! These big churches - replete with their well heeled adherents could now, conceivably, strike out on their own. And here comes an opportunity. Much as Wright’s response to the CEEC Covenant made much sense and good reading, the idea that it might be the ‘final nail in the coffin’ is perhaps a bit overstated. Calling these folks to task for their absent eccelsiology is a little bit like throwing Brer Rabbit into the bramble patch. It’s no problem – that’s where we belong and feel most comfortable. The CEEC Covenant represents opportunity for a particular wing of the church to accomplish certain goals. It’s about control and focus for program. That the Evangelical Wing has in the past done well in the presence of Bishops and neighbouring congregations with whom they disagreed is somehow left to the side undiscussed. The name ‘Anglican’ over the door has given these churches and parachurch organizations access and respectability. No, they’re not the ‘Dolly Pond Church of Pentecost with Signs Following’ – Calm down Mum, it’s the CofE! These big churches – replete with their well heeled adherents could now, conceivably, strike out on their own. And here comes an opportunity.

]]> By: Chris Clark http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/comment-page-1/#comment-76665 Chris Clark Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:49:01 +0000 http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/#comment-76665 Great Dave! I am a bit worried I agree with you so much! I was really disappointed at the covenant statement. I never heard Tom Wright's so angry in tone...and rightly so. Some evangelicals have such a sense of the individual that "my faith" and "my congregation" are all important. We are part of one Church and have responsibilities to one another. If we lose that our mission is tarnished or destroyed. These are dangerous times. Much finance comes from the evangelical churches (such as the one I belong to) and there is a real danger that money will be used as a lever to set an agenda. Great Dave! I am a bit worried I agree with you so much!

I was really disappointed at the covenant statement. I never heard Tom Wright’s so angry in tone…and rightly so.

Some evangelicals have such a sense of the individual that “my faith” and “my congregation” are all important. We are part of one Church and have responsibilities to one another. If we lose that our mission is tarnished or destroyed.

These are dangerous times. Much finance comes from the evangelical churches (such as the one I belong to) and there is a real danger that money will be used as a lever to set an agenda.

]]> By: Orangepekoe » As if there was not enough trouble in the Anglican Communion http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/comment-page-1/#comment-76643 Orangepekoe » As if there was not enough trouble in the Anglican Communion Mon, 18 Dec 2006 22:50:02 +0000 http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/#comment-76643 [...] ing theological fits — check out this cartoon! More later… until then, read cartoonchurch.com [...] [...] ing theological fits — check out this cartoon! More later… until then, read cartoonchurch.com [...]

]]> By: David Keen http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/comment-page-1/#comment-76641 David Keen Mon, 18 Dec 2006 22:24:37 +0000 http://www.cartoonchurch.com/blog/2006/12/18/the-conservative-evangelical-covenant/#comment-76641 brilliant cartoon, sums it up perfectly. I'm a New Wine member. 'nuff said. Thankyou for posting the 'lament' too, it puts it into words better than I could. brilliant cartoon, sums it up perfectly. I’m a New Wine member. ’nuff said. Thankyou for posting the ‘lament’ too, it puts it into words better than I could.

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